Chris Nguon:
Peace, y’all. Welcome to the CARMA Chronicles podcast, where we speak to the nation’s leading Healing Centered practitioners. I’m your host Chris Nguon and today we have the pleasure to speak to Evin Glaude, better known as Sista Evin around these parts, who cultivated a beautiful Family Camp experience just last month. And we are excited to learn more about. Evin really embodies Healing Centered Engagement y’all in so many ways, and her presence in healing work is really starting to shine throughout Oakland. Our conversation, next.

Chris:
Sista Evin how we doing?

Evin Glaude:
 Peace family, peace family. I’m receiving all the beautiful words you spoke out. Thank you so, so much. 

Chris:
Absolutely. Happy New Year. You’ve gotten to take a little bit of a deep breath. Family Camp was beautiful. But there was a lot going on that we are going to jump into. So really since Family Camp, what have you been up to and how does a deep breath look to you? We are going to kick it off right there and jump right into it.

Evin:
Ooo. That is so real. I appreciate that question. A deep breath is defining the difference between rest and sleep to me and taking advantage of that was huge for me. Yes I needed sleep, and that rest is not sleep. Rest is just rest, and pausing, and figuring out what that looks like being on for so long and being ready to just do anything at any point. And doing this complete switch in caring for myself, resting, and being okay with not having anything on my mind, which is still an active process for me but that’s what the last month has looked like.

Chris:
And that active process is really trying to define what rest and healing is and that was what Family Camp was about. A lot of our listeners have heard us talk about Family Camp, but a lot of us haven’t so can you take us through a quick rundown of what Family Camp is, what it means to Flourish Agenda, and what it means to you.

Evin:
Yeah. When I first came into the Flourish Fam, we were always calling it a radical healing space. I think the word radical is thrown out a lot because it really is so radical because it’s Black people choosing joy, rest, pleasure, love and community and the Akili fam provides the space to do that, to give freedom and what it is an opportunity to utilize our creativity in order to find freedom. We believe that creativity is the access to freedom a lot of the times and we do that in different ways at camp whether it be from our workshop or really just our time together. Play. Play is at the center of what we do. It’s just a space for folx to not only heal what’s going on but also dream – its really about that dream piece. That’s where the Healing Centered Engagement comes in.

Chris:
Absolutely forreal. It’s all about that dream and aspirations and how do we actualize that reality together, right? I’ve heard from families that you cultivated such beautiful space do be able to do that. Who were some of the families that came to camp this year?

Evin:
We had some beautiful families. We had two Thomas families, we had a family of 10, we had a family of 2, we had families that represented all parts of Oakland, especially West Oakland. We had a heavy West Oakland presence there. 

Chris:
West Oakland in the house!

Evin:
West Oakland in the house! We had families tuning in from Sacramento, from Georgia, this was really everyone on deck.

Chris:
And I’m glad you actually said that as you talk about families tapping in from Georgia and from Sacramento. We had to pivot Family Camp because of the spike of the pandemic, especially around that late-December, January time. How was that like just coordinating and pulling off a hybrid Family Camp meant for in-person work?

Evin:
It’s funny because its something that is always put on our radar. Everybody has gotten into that nature of the past couple years and it’s just different when you actually have to do it (LOL). It’s so different when it actually does and we made the decision less than two weeks before camp that it was going to be completely virtual. It was rough in a lot of ways and it was beautiful in a lot of ways because there was a list of stuff that I didn’t have quite down yet that I was beating myself up about for a minute, “man I should’ve had this done, yadayada” but it’s really about the pivots right? That flow. And every time we chose flow, everything came together. Every moment we chose flow, we all had each other’s back. And even the day we got there, we made sure we had everything under control, we arrive at the location, and I don’t have my laptop. Like, “dang!” I go into my spiral and I realize, no, I have to chose flow. I had a laptop to me in 20 minutes. So it was really difficult. One of the most difficult things I’ve done in my career. And I’m so grateful because it just taught me how much flow support the work that we do.

Chris:
Absolutely. And I think a little bit of a plug – Dr. Ginwright’s book, the Four Pivots, just came out y’all and one of the themes of the book, one of the themes of our work at Flourish Agenda, is deconstructing what frenzy really means and how destructive frenzy really is to our ability to heal. And what you are talking about in terms of flow, Sista Evin, is this something that you’ve learned over time? Is this something that was heightened over the last couple years? Because I get the sense from speaking with you, being in space with you, and learning more about you that you’ve always centered flow. Where did that really come from?

Evin:
This goes into my passion when you just said that. I think we all have flow as children. We all have a lot of flow as youth. It’s becoming an adult in this society that starts to build frenzy. Other things can build frenzy as well and I know for me, that was it. Dealing with society around me with capitalism and whatever else, that is what builds frenzy. And once I get to that inner me, whether its my inner kid or inner wisdom, that’s where my flow lies. It lies in trust, in faith, in my ancestors, in trust in my community. Yeah, it’s really about that community piece. The more I’m around people who are like me, or even not like me, I’m about making sure  everyone wins. I need flow to make sure everyone wins.

Chris:
Yeah. Absolutely. Did you see that modeled in space for you? When I say space, I mean community-based organizations, grassroots work, and did you see at times when it wasn’t modeled, and it was really apparent to you?

Evin:
Yeah, definitely I’ve been working with youth of color in the Bay Area over the last five years and I definitely saw it working in preschools working San Francisco, especially int eh Bayview area. I saw how easy it could be changing a whole room. I don’t think I fully built it and was able to ignite it until I starting working in Oakland Freedom Schools and Camp Akili with Flourish Agenda. That’s really where I found my voice – and working in Oakland.

Chris:
Working in the Town. With all the culture here, the identity here, through Camp Akili, at Oakland Freedom Schools and all the history with Oakland Freedom Schools, all the way down to the early 90s with all the grassroots work. Sista. Evin how does identify and your healing really intersect.

Evin:
Its really funny because I am a very passionate person and this work is a huge part of my identity. It’s so funny because I’m making this transition between my resume or my bio and how it’s important to list accomplishments, who you are, and what you learned but I have a huge desire to show up and before I say anything to say, “Hi, my name is Evin and I’m a lover.” I want lover to be my first identity. I know that that is me to the core. The center of everything is love for me and if I lead with that, there is nothing I can’t do.

Chris:
I’m curious. What does that mean to lead with love? To move with love? How do you embody that and how do we embody that as practitioners. For someone who is listening to this for them to say “this sounds dope.”

Evin:
It’s really about compassion and understanding and that mirror work. I’m really big on mirrors and just seeing reflection in people, especially if I don’t see a reflection, then there is a deeper reflection that I need to find. Seeing the humanity in people, seeing the reflection in people, understanding what community is and looks like, defining what community is in other beings, just being honest. I’m a tender person. It’s being that vulnerable, courageous person and we are all just learning how to be in this life no matter how long we’ve been on this planet. Just coming into this with that understanding and acceptance and if there is a desire for change, creating that and doing it with love.

Chris:
Wow. So when we thinking about the Four Pivots – one of them is Lens to Mirror. Since the beginning of time, when Dr. Ginwright and Flourish has introduced that concept, I always viewed Lens to Mirror as looking at the work I have to do, both my own healing and ways in which my privilege shows up as a male., But Sista Evin you just encapsulated a different framework of Lens to Mirror. I want you to break this down for me. So when you use Lens to Mirror, part of that framework is when you look at another person, you see an identity. And if you don’t, then you know there’s some work to do. Is that accurate?

Evin:
Yup. Honestly I have to admit it was a pivot from projection for me. We constantly project at each other in this world. Moving out of projection in this world at the end of the day there is a connection here. What is at the root of what we are doing here? Even for people who disagree, at the root of things, there is a passion, a similarity. It’s about seeing yourself in community and I do think it stems from my studies in Africana studies and the study of your people. And it doesn’t mean adopting things that aren’t yours but you get to figure yourself out and your process. In doing that, you understand others as well as well as yourself.

Chris:
Wow. And that can lead toward your healing journey how?

Evin:
It can lead toward your healing journey by figuring out who you are not and what doesn’t fit – and without judgement to yourself or others. Just naming truth. What is the truth here? Yes there are all of these things, but what is the thing that is the truth?

Chris:
I just have to sit with that for a second y’all. The truth of everything, for yourself and others, that’s so real. Getting back to the direct service work a little bit, how did you see that truth and that process show up for our families during camp this year during the midst health concerns, schooling concerns, financial concerns. How did it show up for our caregivers?

Evin:
Yo they taught us. We just provided the space. They taught us so much. All of it was joy and one of the most beautiful things I saw was them seeing mirrors of each other. They were constantly throwing roses at each other, hyping each other up, encouraging each other to speak, perform, share, doing all of these things that naturally came up in person and online – because some of the families were social distancing in the hotel together. But just seeing how creative they got with how they shared with one another. And there were so many beautiful moments where families had the power to say no or yes. People had choice in the space. 

Chris:
Break that down a little more.

Evin:
In workshop settings, people feel like they have to do things. That’s not freedom. We are all about liberation here. If you feel like you have to do something then you don’t have agency, right? And we want to provide agency for people and have them define what agency looks like to them. There were a few moments where caregivers were able to say no to their youth and their youth were still able to get what they were asking for when we were there. Oh you want to do x, y, and z? Let’s do that. Oh, you want to grab some food? Wanna go hang out and do this over here? Parents were understanding that we all had different roles. Caregivers were not just caregivers in the space – they got to be people and individuals and a part of a family unit. Youth were not just the children of caregivers, they got to talk about their dreams, their struggles, as they are trying to figure it all out. I saw everybody blossom in that space. 

Chris: 
That’s magnificent. And part of the reason I ask that question is that we have a lot of our Healing Centered Pioneers practitioners of HCE listening to this podcast, listening to healers all around the world just like themselves, trying to figure out how best to cultivate this HCE work and this healing work. I think as we ask about identity and we see that families are blossoming, how do you cultivate, as a practitioner, settings and workshops, and facilitate some of that freedom? How do you affirm their ability to exercise choice in the quote, unquote, training world?

Evin:
I think whether it’s in the structure, in the curriculum, making sure that there is choice there. We always want to make sure there is representation, we want to make sure that its inclusive language, what does that look like in the context of choice and choice of different people? Working with families is the best way of learning about different people because a family are all different kinds of people and that’s why I love families. You can get anything in any situation and you just have to be ready for it. And also understanding no matter how much preparation you do, you might be missing somebody’s representation, right, and that’s okay. It's about what do you do in this moment? How do you provide an opportunity for a person to sort out and process what it is they might need? They are the guide, you are there to pop in where you might be needed. I worked alongside every facilitator in creating their workshops which was a dope experience which I really appreciated. One of the workshops which was with everyone together was called we are the medicine we speak. And that is at the key of this entire thing we seek because we got a lot of the things we need already inside of us. How do I pull it out? How do we ignite that light inside of people?  It takes community activation, chanting together, singing with one another, giving each other space to just share and talk about the nuances of life about being Black, being a Black family, and you see the light ignite for everybody.

Chris:
That’s so powerful. Thank you for sharing. That even helps me out in terms of how we continue to think about how we cultivate our workshops here at Flourish Agenda. Thank you for sharing that. One of the things that come to mind for me too, traditionally, Camp Akili, Akili Family Camp, Oakland Freedom Schools, have been for and curated by Black people, Black spaces, for Black youth. As an Asian man, I can only imagine, listen, and hear the power of these spaces and how that cultivates. As a Black woman yourself, tell me a little but more and breakdown what it feels like to be a practitioner in spaces that have been intentionally built for Black people?

Evin:
It’s healing my inner child. My inner teen, my inner child is attending in these moments too. I think about my niece in this moment, Sole, six years old, and she is my doppelganger. She got to do Freedom School last year and to see what that did for her and what it does for all the youth I cross paths with is really necessary and coming to the realization that this should be the norm for folx and I give so much gratitude for how I was welcomed into this space because yes, I am a Black woman, and I am a bi-racial woman, and I’m half white, and I’m from Southern California, I’m not even from the Bay, and I was just welcomed in with so much love and care and people saw me. And again, I saw their light, they saw my light, and we came together. Let’s just be the sun together and throw all these rays on youth and families. It was one of the first times I was able to be myself. I think the importance of camp, regardless of what might come up, was that it was one of the first spaces where you got to define what your identity is to you. It was the first time I fully felt free to define what my Blackness meant to me and be able to do it in a space with other Black people and I got to see this eclectic, beautiful space, full of Black people that didn’t need to be put into one genre because nah, we are Black people who are doing it all, doing it everything, represent all different parts.

Chris:
Appreciations for that context. As we think about Healing Centered Engagement, we center the healing for all communities to be well, we also understand and recognize that that Akili sprit is really rooted in African traditions and the power of it being rooted in Oakland over the years have brought healers together to do this work and we’d be remiss if we didn’t shoutout Sista Denicia Carlay, Sista Tiarra Knox, Sista Ree Botts, Brotha Marquis, Brotha Oceola, and so many others, who helped to plan Family Camp a year and a half ago to lead up to this point last month which Sista Evin you executed so well. As we think about how Family Camp was built this year through the 40-day container before camp, through Kwanzaa, and leading up to camp itself, we also had clinical interns. Now our practitioners who are listening might be like “well, wait a minute, I thought HCE was non-clinical?” It is y’all. But, we also brought in clinical interns who represent various schools around the Bay Area and Sista Evin you were one of the interns. You held that hat as well under two of the dopest sistas in the game right now, Dr. Denicia and Dr. Porscha Moore. Where did you see some of that intersectionality with that clinical work, how was that integrated, and how HCE, which is a holistic non-clinical point of view, how did it all intersect?

Evin:
I love this question. As an clinical intern who does not plan to be a clinical practitioner, I have been living in this nuance for the past year and a half in this space and clinical work is an access point. It’s a normalized, important thing that exists in our society for people to seek healing. The way that we were able to do it … the dope part was that the families were still able to define what that space was for them. At the root of it all was the African traditions, the traditions of Flourish Agenda, and HCE. It was really just a beautiful moment for folx to check-in at whatever timing they wanted, needed. There’s always a setup and structure, then there is how families meet up and what is meant to be and needs to be. I just really saw an opportunity for families to share. There are limitations in clinical work. If I’m a family therapist, then I represent the family as opposed to one individual, etc. . It looked different for all of us but what I saw was an opportunity for caregiver to take off the caregiver hat and just be themselves and just talk, and be just them. The clinical interns gave spaciousness for families to be themselves and figure themselves out. It wasn’t this huge, let’s change everything right away, but hey, if you had one thing you could work on, what is it? Let’s start working on it. We are also working with families post camp through summer. And that – working with people through seasons. It’s a both, And.

Chris:
That’s brilliant. Thank you for that breakdown. I feel like I was just in Professor Glaude’s class right now. And as we close out, and we want to thank our Healing Centered Practitioners and everyone for listening, where do you see healing work going in the next five years? How do see it evolving? Where do you see it flourishing? 

Evin:
I see healing work flourishing when we give the power to the community itself. I really believe in community-based healing. I really believe in the piece in Healing Centered Engagement where we ask where is your aspiration? Where is your strength? I want to see youth coordinating this. Yes, I am here to help guide but I believe that everyone already has what they need inside of them. It’s just about igniting that light.  

Chris:
And that’s that dreaming y’all. That’s that aspirational thinking. In HCE terms, that’s that actualization too. So, if youth are going to run family camp, then that’s what it’s going to be. Because we dream it, we believe it, we aspire to it, that’s what’s going to happen. Thank you Sista Evin. We move in love, we move in flow. Together we flourish everybody. Thank you for listening. Peace.